In this podcast, Jonathan Gingerich and I discuss a paper he wrote for the American Philosophy Association (APA) conference that we never got to discuss. Jonathan has since had the paper published in the Canadian Journal of Philosophy. The general issue we discuss is, what makes games good? Responding to Thomas Hurka who argues that games’ goodness lies in their complexity, Jonathan’s paper argues that Hurka’s theory should be modified to account for the player’s experience of freedom as an intrinsic good. But what’s the most important part of the player’s experience of freedom? The freedom to play in the first place, or the freedom within the game? And how do the goals and/or rules of a game restrict or enhance the player’s freedom?